Emily May's Reviews > Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It

Of Boys and Men by Richard V. Reeves
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bookshelves: 2023, nonfiction

I have thought about reading one of these mens’ issues books for years. My instinct is to dismiss them as it's hard to listen to men complain how hard it is for them, but then I’ve always prided myself on being someone who is open to at least hearing differing viewpoints.

And, to be honest, I am a bit worried about what is going on with guys these days. I think we are getting to the point where we cannot continue ignoring the increasing number of boys being radicalised online and turning into Incels. Laura Bates (Men Who Hate Women) convinced me we should be concerned, and I am. While Incels are trash, I am inclined to think this is a mental health crisis playing out in the worst way. I don’t think it’s enough to call them losers and forget about them; I think they are a real problem. Plus, I have three sons and want a good world for them.

It’s hard to find sympathy for some of this, though. It’s really hard. Basically… men have spent centuries barring women from education because we are just less intelligent, our brains are just not suited to critical thinking, we should leave the learning to the men… and now that they’ve let us in, it turns out girls are outperforming boys at every level of education. We are better at the system men built. I mean… it’s hard to feel bad. But I will try.

I agree with a number of things Reeves says.

I agree that we are actively getting more women into traditionally male-dominated roles, but not balancing that with more men in traditionally female-dominated caregiving roles. Though I also believe this is because we still perceive the feminine as weak and lesser, so a woman becoming more stereotypically masculine is bettering herself, but a man taking on a stereotypically feminine role is lessening himself.

Reeves also makes a big deal out of the fact that boys seem to respect male role models more than female ones, whereas the sex of a role model doesn’t seem to matter for girls— which he seems to take as a sign that we need to get boys more male role models, not that we need to teach them to have more respect for women.

I agree that this intersects with a class issue. Upper middle class men are doing just fine— indeed, Reeves states himself that 97% of venture capital goes to male founders —but it is men at the bottom of the social order who are struggling. This is largely because the jobs they traditionally filled are now being replaced by robots. I think boys need to be prepped from a young age to deal with this changing labour market. I have a thought— and this is just observational as someone who grew up working class but would now likely be considered middle class—that it seems it is mostly working class communities who are obsessed with traditional masculinity. I see it less amongst middle and upper middle class men.

Though Reeves doesn’t acknowledge this, one of my biggest takeaways from the numbers he gave is not the rise in women’s position compared to working class men, but the extravagant (and growing) wealth of the richest men compared to the poorest. It’s hard to look at these numbers and see anything other than the rich man keeping the poor man down.

In Part III: Biology and Culture, Reeves makes a lot of arguments that I just saw very effectively dismantled in Delusions of Gender, and this is also the part of the book that I think weakens his argument the most. It is the part where I started to think that Reeves has not fully organised his own beliefs on the definition of masculinity, the role of men, and the importance of biology. His thoughts on biology are along the lines of “there are biological differences between the sexes, not too much difference and they overlap, but still very important differences like men are less nurturing and more aggressive and lustful.” (not a direct quote)

He spends some time on the impact of culture on sex differences, even mentioning the studies that have suggested cultural roles create brain differences, not the other way around (if you’ve got some time, I recommend researching this because it is fascinating stuff), but defaults back to the fundamental differences argument. Despite providing strong arguments to the contrary, he is reluctant to let go of his insistence on the importance of innate neurological differences.

His marriage to neurological differences is at odds with some of his progressive policies. Men are naturally more aggressive and sexual, but let’s put more in charge of our young kids. Men are less nurturing, less likely to prioritise caregiving, but let’s give them equal paternity leave and get more into teaching roles.

I mean: which is it? Are men beholden to their aggressive biology, or should we expect them to adapt to caregiving roles in the workplace and at home? Personally, I think it’s the second, but Reeves spends a lot of this book emphasising the importance of biological differences.

Like too many men I have read, he seems to want sex differences to be immutable when it suits his argument, but flexible when it does not. Ambition, for example, has long been considered a male trait, but now Reeves says of girls “their appetite for success is just higher”.

He also, like Hans Rosling (his self-described “hero”), carefully emphasises the importance of numbers that support his argument while downplaying others. “Strikingly” is used to describe “the proportion of girls versus boys getting high grades” which is 47% vs 32%. Then a couple paragraphs later he admits that boys still score higher on standardised tests but he dismisses this with “But this gap has narrowed sharply”.

Similarly, he says “three in ten wives now out-earn their husbands, twice as many as in 1981” like this is supposed to be a shockingly large amount. That’s seven out of ten husbands still out-earning wives— hardly reason to panic we’ve gone too far in the other direction.

While he insists he does not want to reverse the gains of women, Reeves is happy to quote misogynists (Case & Deaton) and patriarchy-deniers (Dench) when they say things he likes. He finishes one section with this: “The economic reliance of women on men held women down, but it also propped men up. Now the props have gone, and many men are falling.” I can’t believe I have to say this in 2023, but women are not your props.

My personal opinion, both as someone who has read quite widely on this and as a mother, is that the real change needs to happen in the nursery and preschools. Raise kind, sensitive boys who people will want as a partner. Sure, give them legos and tool kits, but give them drama classes, for example, to encourage interpersonal skills— which will be way more valuable in the changing labour market. And talk to them! Studies have shown that mums talk to boy babies less than girl babies (but of course men are less talkative because they’re biologically programmed that way).

Reeves says:

“Boys are five times more likely than girls to be frequently aggressive by the age of seventeen—seventeen months, that is.”

and

“Remember, boys under the age of 2 are five times more likely to be aggressive than girls. This is surely not because 1-year-olds have picked up gender cues from around them.”


That use of “no, not seventeen years— seventeen months!” is very Hans Rosling-style. It implies, of course, that seventeen month olds are so young that they cannot possibly be exposed to culture and stereotypes (and this is a man who has kids?) Let me tell you as a parent— a LOT has happened with development by seventeen months. My youngest is currently eleven months and he already has a personality of his own. 1 year olds are absolutely picking up on gender cues all the time and it took me becoming a parent to really appreciate the sheer amount they are exposed to. The subliminal messaging goes way beyond pink princesses and blue trucks.

On the lookout for more gender-neutral clothes for my babies, I was thinking that animals would be a safe bet. Animals aren’t gendered, right? Everyone likes animals. But just go take a look at the difference between animal themed clothing in the “Boys” and “Girls” sections. We dress our newborn girls in cute kitties, puppies and bunnies— the kind of animals you keep as pets. And our boys? Tigers, crocodiles and dinosaurs. How can anyone dress a newborn boy in predators and not for one second question that boys are “naturally more aggressive”?

I am all for equal paternity leave, getting boys into caregiving careers and changing the way we see mum as the default parent. Reeves sees this latter issue as being one of dads being barred from parenting, sometimes by a gatekeeper mother when the parents are separated, but that doesn’t reflect the experiences of any of the women I know. All I ever hear from other women— together or separated —is about how little fathers are willing to do.

I am less convinced by Reeves’ argument to hold all boys back a year and start school later than girls. I think if everything else he suggested is achieved, that would not be necessary. Though I am not strongly opposed either.

So I don’t agree with all Reeves’ arguments, but I do agree there is a problem. I think it starts from birth with boys being immersed in a culture that tells them they are more aggressive, more into building things than people. In a world where, as Reeves puts it, women increasingly don’t need men, they have no reason to stay with an aggressive partner or one who puts tinkering with his toys before the kids. Women have spent a couple centuries defying the cultural stereotypes assigned to them; it is my belief men can do the same if we stop telling them these stereotypes are natural or desirable.
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Reading Progress

October 28, 2023 – Started Reading
October 30, 2023 – Finished Reading
November 1, 2023 – Shelved

Comments Showing 1-33 of 33 (33 new)

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message 1: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Maud wrote: "Love your review! Feel like I read the book and saved myself a lot of time and frustration at the same time "

Thank you, Maud :)


message 2: by Farzana (new)

Farzana I have brain envy! Love how you've summarised the book.


message 3: by Little Feather (new)

Little Feather I agree with you about talking to your babies a lot, no matter the gender :) as a mom of a boy and a girl, I loved the tip from Cinderella Ate My Daughter about how important it is to nurture our boy's friendships with girls, instead of falling into the boys only being friends with boys problem. And vice versa. There are statistics on how there is a decrease in make violence against women when relationships like this are nurtured.


message 4: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Little Feather wrote: "I agree with you about talking to your babies a lot, no matter the gender :) as a mom of a boy and a girl, I loved the tip from Cinderella Ate My Daughter about how important it is to nurture our b..."

I agree completely. I have done my best to encourage my boys to have friendships with girls as I think this is the foundation of respect. Also, while I think it's impossible to raise a child gender-neutral in our world, I tried very hard not to label anything as "for girls" or "for boys". The result is I have one boy who likes cars, dancing, the colour pink, video games and books about cute kittens, and hates sports, and another boy who likes football, painting his nails, dinosaurs, dolls and swordfights. It's almost like they're unique individuals with an array of interests when you don't force them into gender stereotypes.


message 5: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Farzana wrote: "I have brain envy! Love how you've summarised the book."

Haha, thank you!


message 6: by Samhita (new)

Samhita Nandamudi Excellent review Emily! As I strong headed feminist who has constantly been differentiated against in my career choices (engineering college, business school), I know how stressful it is to come up against all these arguments you have highlighted and countered. I come from a family of strong headed feminist women, and a feminist mother and father who have raised me in as gender neutral a way as possible (given the society we live in). As a woman, I am most moved by how committed you are to raising your 3 boys to be strong, sensitive and mindful. They are lucky to have you as are the women of their generation! If more women like you were committed to raising their boys with empathy and kindness and to look at women as their equals, this world would be a far better place. So, thank you :)


message 7: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Samhita wrote: "Excellent review Emily! As I strong headed feminist who has constantly been differentiated against in my career choices (engineering college, business school), I know how stressful it is to come up..."

Thank you so much, Samhita :)


Kimberly I really liked your review and connected with similar concerns and perspective on the author’s viewpoint. Also appreciate your mention of other good reads that I hope to check out.


message 9: by Jodi (new)

Jodi Great review. Thanks for putting in words some of my same thoughts.


message 10: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Kimberly wrote: "I really liked your review and connected with similar concerns and perspective on the author’s viewpoint. Also appreciate your mention of other good reads that I hope to check out."

Thank you, Kimberly.


message 11: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Jodi wrote: "Great review. Thanks for putting in words some of my same thoughts."

Thanks, Jodi :)


message 12: by Lola (new)

Lola I just recently found your page Emily, and wow!! You are so good at reviewing things, this seems like a very thought provoking book.


message 13: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Lola wrote: "I just recently found your page Emily, and wow!! You are so good at reviewing things, this seems like a very thought provoking book."

Thank you, Lola :)


message 14: by Saniya (new)

Saniya Aurangzeb Hey,
I've seen you reviewing a lot of books and may I ask what your favorite book of ALL time is?. <3


message 15: by Keri (new)

Keri Stone Great thoughtful review! I’ll watch to see if you find any books you think more successful on this important topic.


message 16: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Keri wrote: "Great thoughtful review! I’ll watch to see if you find any books you think more successful on this important topic."

Thank you, Keri!


message 17: by Hamid (new) - added it

Hamid Reza Do you consider yourself a devoted feminist? Do you find it hard to start a relationship with men these days as a woman?


message 18: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Hamid wrote: "Do you consider yourself a devoted feminist? Do you find it hard to start a relationship with men these days as a woman? "

Yes, I consider myself a feminist. And no, I have been in a relationship with a man for 10 years.


message 19: by Ismail (new)

Ismail El Your instinct to dismiss men's rights books is quite something. Can I ask why? (I am not judging I am just really interested on the why and if u willing to answer) I do understand that women's oppression is true and valid reason for most women to have this lingering resentment, but a kid born today has nothing to do with the system built by his forefathers. So, wouldn't your instinct, given you have three sons, have told you that what might be a new social phenomenon that might prove rather pertinent to your children's lives be studied and known and if true given its due attention? I just think as society changes the dynamics of it would be rather different from those of past societies, and thus give rise to certain idiosyncrasies of this age that might put a certain caste of the social order, that might in the past have enjoyed a rather dominant role in all affairs, at a certain disadvantage; and if true, and if we don't hold our sons accountable for the sins of their fathers, then issues like this should be looked upon with neutrality and not with the suspicious eye affected by the injustice of the past. I just learned throughout life that things demand deep reflection and understanding rather than dismissal due to some emotions that might be, as in your case, justified. I am sorry if this is long and or if I come across as rude those are just some thoughts I had and shared for some reason. Have a great day!


message 20: by Ismail (new)

Ismail El + I am not saying all males are at a disadvantage, obviously there are still some vestiges of the patriarchy in the first world and more than just vestiges in other countries.


message 21: by Ismail (new)

Ismail El another++ lol. I just wanted to say that my comment was more of a reflection on what I heard from a lot of feminist women. A fleeting comment on that urge to dismiss. And yeah sorry I talk a lot my bad


message 22: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Ismail wrote: "Your instinct to dismiss men's rights books is quite something. Can I ask why? (I am not judging I am just really interested on the why and if u willing to answer) I do understand that women's oppr..."

My instinct is based on seeing MRAs use pseudoscience and misinterpret studies to their advantage in the past. Perhaps "instinct" is the wrong word, as it is rooted in evidence and experience.

You say "things demand deep reflection and understanding rather than dismissal" and I do actually agree. Which is why I read the book despite my misgivings.


message 23: by Ismail (new)

Ismail El Thank you for the reply!


message 24: by Joe (new) - added it

Joe Thanks for the review! About this:

Let me tell you as a parent— a LOT has happened with development by seventeen months. My youngest is currently eleven months and he already has a personality of his own. 1 year olds are absolutely picking up on gender cues all the time and it took me becoming a parent to really appreciate the sheer amount they are exposed to.

What makes you attribute personality development at this age to nurture, rather than nature? I've talked to several parents who concluded the opposite: their home environment stayed largely the same and yet newborn siblings developed vastly different personalities very early on. Ultimately this kind of evidence doesn't seem to support nature or nurture exclusively.

The science I'm familiar with implies nature has a bigger effect (e.g. "Sex differences in human neonatal social perception", by Simon Baron-Cohen), if you have any recommendations I'm all ears.

Thanks again! About to start this book


message 25: by Emily May (last edited Feb 15, 2024 05:31PM) (new) - added it

Emily May Joe wrote: "Thanks for the review! About this:


Let me tell you as a parent— a LOT has happened with development by seventeen months. My youngest is currently eleven months and he already has a personality ..."


I attribute personality to a lot of things-- both nature and nurture. My comment was a response to Reeves incredulity at the idea that a 1 year old is capable of picking up cues from their environment. I don't know if you have a child yourself, but the difference between a newborn and a 2 year old is astronomical. They constantly absorb stimuli from their environment and learn exceptionally fast. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting anything is "exclusively" nurture, but I believe innate arguments for some sex differences are ludicrous. I have three boys, they all have vastly different personalities and play with different toys, which could be nature or nurture, but I don't believe it's sex either way.

I highly recommend Delusions of Gender as a starting point on this. Fine actually engages directly with Baron-Cohen's argument. In my opinion, she makes it sound quite silly, but I encourage you to read it and draw your own conclusions.


message 26: by Katy (new) - rated it 2 stars

Katy Crumpton Excellent review.! I just finished ‘Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men’ and though not a 1-1 comparison, this book was already on my list, so thought it might be an interesting follow-up. I found myself eye-rolling through a lot of it, sadly. I have 4 sons, aged 7-19 (so several teens and one graduated and trying to navigate his transition into adulthood-he’s working full time and living at home currently. But he’s also autistic, so has a developmental disability to account for.). I couldn’t quite put my finger on what was actually causing the discomfort in His arguments, but there was just something… missing. You hit it on the head for me.


message 27: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Katy wrote: "Excellent review.! I just finished ‘Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men’ and though not a 1-1 comparison, this book was already on my list, so thought it might be an interesting ..."

Thank you, Katy! Invisible Women is a great book. I'd also highly recommend Delusions of Gender if you haven't read it already. It very successfully dismantles several of the arguments Reeves makes.


message 28: by Kenia (new)

Kenia Sedler I just saw this book on Obama's Summer Reading List, and then came across your excellent review. Thank you for such a thorough write up, and for the reference to Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine. I will be picking that one up instead.


message 29: by Tom (new) - added it

Tom "It’s hard to find sympathy for some of this, though. It’s really hard. Basically… men have spent centuries barring women from education because we are just less intelligent, our brains are just not suited to critical thinking, we should leave the learning to the men… and now that they’ve let us in, it turns out girls are outperforming boys at every level of education. We are better at the system men built. I mean… it’s hard to feel bad. But I will try."

The book is not an attack on your own victimhood. It is not saying the wrongs done to your group (maybe even to you personally) are any less severe.

It's astonishing to me that someone would feel like it's hard to sympathise with a disenfranchised, working class, 19-year old man, in 2024, because women weren't allowed to study to become doctors two hundred years ago.


message 30: by Emily May (new) - added it

Emily May Tom wrote: ""It’s hard to find sympathy for some of this, though. It’s really hard. Basically… men have spent centuries barring women from education because we are just less intelligent, our brains are just no..."

I missed your comment before Tom, so it's possible you won't see my reply.

You reduced millennia of men enslaving, abusing, raping and disenfranchising women-- which, by the way, is still ongoing in many ways --to "weren't allowed to study to become doctors two hundred years ago" yet find it "astonishing" that women aren't taking it seriously when men whine that they're under-performing in school? Why don't you examine why you feel the need to diminish the hell women have been through, and I'll examine why I'm struggling to sympathise with men who have the same opportunities as women of their social class but, as Reeves says, lack motivation to work for them.


Sharon Teles Excellent review!


message 32: by William (new)

William Have you read Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph? He's also written Raising Girls.


message 33: by Lemar (new)

Lemar Your review made a lot of good points. There is a tendency for scholars, dietitians and psychologists to harken back to ancient people to see what our gender roles were then and the assumption is that we have gone astray since that Golden Era. To my mind, your review points out that human roles need to be defined by the work that needs to be done for our families and our species to survive. That’s primary. Parsing out what is an appropriate feminine or masculine role is secondary and arguably a diversion. It seems obvious to me that those roles will change due to climate, population and technology. We are in a time of rapid change. That’s why your review appeals to me as it focuses on ways we can evolve to allow our gender roles to change to meet the demands of now, rather than preserving historical ones. Let’s be clear, our survival is imperiled in this age, so it’s all hands on deck and we can’t sit around whining about how we feel disrespected, we need to get to work find out where labor can be used most beneficially.

As men, the jobs done by our role models are now increasingly done by robots, financed by billionaires who would rather make yet another billion than employ people. That is a a conscious effort folks, let’s address that. It’s not women driving that, or inadvertently causing it by succeeding in the work force. It is the agenda of white male billionaires and I for one oppose that. People need jobs, we are all needed and that will play out in new ways, that is in keeping with nature. It is whatever is needed we rise to the occasion and do it. If that’s a woman working as a longshoreman or a dude working at a pre-school who cares. It’s about survival. Let’s champion each other and not undermine with ridicule and insecurity. So let’s not be divided into warring camps - men versus women. We have the same goals and we can work together. It happens every day.


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