All About Books discussion

The book for Week 10 is The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.
Here's the link to the article - http://gu.com/p/4hneb?CMP=Share_iOSAp...

I thought this one was terrible. It put me to sleep. Here is what I thought after I read the book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...

I am gullible and think that when others praise a book I ill love it too. That isn't always the case.

I liked this, but it wasn't an easy read and I much preferred some of his later books, especially The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution.

Gill wrote: "The book for Week 10 is The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.
Here's the link to the article - http://gu.com/p/4hneb?CMP=Share_iOSAp..."

I never understand why people are so keen on Dawkins; Dawkins is the rudest evolutionary author I've ever read and there are others out there who are much more palatable. On this topic, I preferred Whisperings Within by David Barash, although it was more in the then new field of sociobiology. Of course being sociobiology I tore it apart in a term paper for a Methodology class (philosophy, for women's studies), but I enjoyed reading it a great deal.

But then, Dawkins writes for a popular audience.

I think he's great. Some of his books, such as The God Delusion are definitely more for a popular audience. I thought most of his other books such as The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design were more focused on specific scientific topics. In their own field they're incredibly interesting and insightful. They're the perfect level of science for somebody like me who doesn't want a textbook to study, but still wants in depth information.

I think his books are really good. The God Delusion was the first one I read and i was totally engrossed. It got me really interested in the subject. Also read The Greatest Show on Earth. I have the Selfish Gene on my Kindle but haven't read it yet.

I just checked my TBR list and 3 of his books are on it but I haven't read any books by him yet.
From this thread, his work seems fairly polarizing.

Hmm, I really have a strong hatred for the premise that all people are basically motivated by selfish motives. I just don't believe that at all - runs directly contrary to my experience!! But of course it's impossible to tell what the premise really is without reading it. Did I understand the book blurbs correctly? Is that the book's argument? Gill, the article you linked sounds very different than the blurbs - I'm quite confused!

Greg, I agree. Most people are helpful and kind, from my experience. There's always a few but they don't stay in my life for long. I'd hate to think that people truly were basically selfish in their motives and thoughts.
The premise of the book sounds a lot like some of the premises in Adam's Curse: The Science That Reveals Our Genetic Destiny. While I am doubtful that a simple gene has the kind of wherewithal to selfishly fight for its personal survival that Sykes talks about, it may be possible that there is some ingrained survival tactic that genes are a part of that helps our species continue. According to Sykes, this theory and its research is fairly new to the scientific game.
Sykes made the theory sound interesting and possibly possible in some so far unknown way. I don't know how Dawkins would present the topic (never having read him).

Petra wrote: "Greg, I agree. Most people are helpful and kind, from my experience. There's always a few but they don't stay in my life for long. I'd hate to think that people truly were basically selfish in thei..."

Thanks Petra! - it's all very interesting! I kind of see what you mean, though I think I'd understand better if I read this book or the book you mentioned.

Greg wrote: "Hmm, I really have a strong hatred for the premise that all people are basically motivated by selfish motives. I just don't believe that at all - runs directly contrary to my experience!! But of co..."

Greg, it's not at all about how individual people act selfishly. It's the genes that are selfish and the way Dawkins looked at them was groundbreaking. This quote about The Selfish Gene is from a list of 25 science books you should read -

In this enduring popularization of evolutionary biology, Dawkins argues that our genes do not exist to perpetuate us; instead, we are useful machines that serve to perpetuate them. This unexpected shift in perspective, a "gene's-eye view of nature," is an enjoyable ­­brainteaser for the uninitiated. So is a related notion: that altruistic behavior in animals does not evolve for "the good of the species" but is really selfishness in disguise. "Like successful Chicago gangsters," Dawkins writes, "our genes have survived, in some cases for millions of years, in a highly competitive world."

Hmm, I've only read one book by him so far, but it lead me into Karin's camp I think. He is a man who knows his way with words that is for sure, and a sharp thinker, but I thought the The God Delusion was astounding in it's proportion of insult and vitriol. It sets out to prove that God doesn't exist and religion is the source of most if not all evil, but it's main effect on me was that I realized that I am as scared of atheistic fundamentalism as I am of religious fundamentalism.

Jenny, yes The God Delusion and his outspoken thinking on religion nowadays is very antagonistic and in your face. It seems like he's changed career from a brilliant scientist, into a professional God denouncer. Though I don't think that his views and antics nowadays should detract from his previous scientific work.

you're right Pink, unfortunately it was my first by him and one that really didn't motivate me to read another. It's good to know though that his earlier work was better.

I read this about a year ago but didn't particularly like it, but I think my opinion was coloured by my dislike of him and his attitudes (I am an atheist but he's a bit rabid for my taste). I do have a copy of The Ancestor's Tale which I'll read at some point to give him another chance though.

Paul, I thought The Ancestors Tale was absolutely amazing and my favourite book of his by far.

Pink wrote: "Greg, it's not at all about how individual people act selfishly. It's the genes that are selfish and the way Dawkins looked at them was groundbreaking. This quote about The Selfish Gene is from a list of 25 science books you should read -

In this enduring popularization of evolutionary biology, Dawkins argues that our genes do not exist to perpetuate us; instead, we are useful machines that serve to perpetuate them. ..."

Thanks Pink! This helps a lot - I figured I was misunderstanding the book blurbs because the different things I was seeing didn't add up.

Greg wrote: "Hmm, I really have a strong hatred for the premise that all people are basically motivated by selfish motives. I just don't believe that at all - runs directly contrary to my experience!! But of co..."

You are spot on. Although sociobiologists, which Dawkins is not so much, come up with their own explanations of it.

Bear in mind, though, that so far no one has irrefutable evidence on this in any evolutionary camp or the ID people (most popular with agnostics; hated by many atheistic evolutionists and and a variety of religious people from a variety of religions--one of the most intelligent and interesting books I read on this was a man who follows a native American faith that I don't ascribe to) or those who believe in any one of the multitude of creation theologies out there can prove their case, so always take it with a grain of salt.