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Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

March 22, 2011

This article was contributed by Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier.

The SUSE family of distributions has the motto "have a lot of fun," but it's Slackware that really pushes that philosophy to its limit. While most of the major Linux distributions are shaped by corporate influence, community politics, and pursuit of mainstream success, Patrick Volkerding has taken a much different path with Slackware, which is readily apparent in the release candidate of Slackware 13.37.

[Slackware boot menu]

The "13.37" version numbering, of course, is a nod to the Slackware userbase (the leet or elite, as it were) and Slackware's history of not taking version numbers too seriously. For a while, when Linux was still elbowing its way into the mainstream, some distributions were accused of "inflating" version numbers as a marketing tactic. And speaking as someone who attended one too many trade shows selling Linux CDs (with the now-defunct Linux-Mall.com) and explaining the differences to new users, this tactic actually worked to some extent. Thus Volkerding decided to one-up the competition by jumping from Slackware 4 to 7 to tweak other vendors and be competitive in version numbering.

Slackware Linux is the oldest surviving Linux distribution. It was not the first, that honor goes to MCC Interim Linux, which was followed by Yggdrasil and Soft Landing Systems (SLS) Linux. SLS was taken by Volkerding, cleaned up, and that became Slackware. It may be hard to imagine for newcomers, but Slackware was once the dominant distribution and considered very easy to use. It has weathered the loss of its distributor when Wind River bought Walnut Creek in 2001, and Volkerding's leave of absence while dealing with health issues.

Nearly 18 years have passed, and the Linux landscape looks radically different. But Slackware does not. Slackware 13.37 retains the text-based installer that has been part of Slackware seemingly forever — at least since this user first picked it up in 1996. When GUI installers were all the rage at the turn of the century and vendors were starting to think seriously about the "Year of the Linux Desktop," Slashdot asked Volkerding if he'd make Slackware "pretty" and easy to use like other distributions. Volkerding responded that Slackware is easy:

And I think we set up the desktop (at least on KDE) with the nicest set of defaults. But I understand what you're saying -- many of the other distributions now provide a fully graphical installation. But, then you end up raising the hardware requirements, so it's a trade off. I do think keeping things primarily text based is the most flexible, then you can do things like installing with a serial console, and maintaining the machine remotely is more straightforward. Of course, I've been accused of being one of those "command line" kind of people...

Judging by the looks of Slackware 13.37, nothing has changed on that front. In fact, not a lot has changed in Slackware since the 13.1 release last May.

[Slackware Xfce]

Naturally, the release contains updates for all of the major packages. Firefox has been updated to the 4.0 release candidate, and Slackware now features KDE 4.5.5 (though KDE SC 4.6.1 has been out for a few weeks and 4.6.0 was released in January), Xfce 4.6.2, Linux kernel 2.6.37, and a slew of other updates that can be found in the changelog.

For those who haven't run Slackware previously, it's something of a minimalist affair. You begin by booting from the CD or DVD, and are dropped into a root prompt. From there, if you need to format your disk you can choose between fdisk or the slightly more user-friendly cfdisk to partition your disk. Then you can run the Slackware setup utility, which walks through the installation of package sets. At that point you can pick and choose software from package sets that range from "a" for base packages (such as the kernel, glibc, and so on) to "xap" for X applications like Firefox. The suggested method is to simply proceed with a full install, which should be around 5.5GB of software when all is said and done.

At the end of the install, you're prompted to set up networking — which is only really useful if you have a wired connection — the bootloader (Slackware still opts for LILO), and set up a root password. Then you may reboot and begin using your freshly installed Slackware system. If you want to run KDE, Xfce, or another desktop you need to either edit the inittab to boot to an X login, (Volkerding has not embraced Upstart as a replacement for init, nor is it likely Slackware would take a chance on systemd just yet) or run startx. KDE, Xfce, and other desktops are presented with very minimal changes from upstream — another difference between Slackware and most modern Linux distributions. GNOME is not presented at all, having been dropped from Slackware years ago. GNOME enthusiasts who want the Slackware experience should look to GNOME SlackBuild.

[Slackware FVWM]

Slackware leaves it to users to create non-root users and manage packages. Slackware has advanced in this regard over the years, and includes slackpkg — a utility which allows users to keep a system updated, but this is done manually. On first run, users will have to edit the slackpkg configuration and select a mirror from which to get updates. Fedora, Ubuntu, Linux Mint and openSUSE users who are accustomed to seeing a notification for system updates may find this a little antiquated. Not to mention the lack of dependency resolution in Slackware's native package management tools, which is a given for APT, Yum, and Zypper but left to the user with Slackware's package tools.

Indeed, Slackware on the surface seems to be a bit behind the times. Since Slackware has no official user mailing lists, I turned to the LinuxQuestions.org Slackware forum to ask Slackers why they choose Slackware over Linux distributions with more advanced package management and system management tools.

The query brought quite a few responses — ranging from users who've been using Slackware to replace SLS to users who started with Slackware (and Linux) around Slackware 12. The overwhelming response was "simplicity" along with the fact that software is "proven" and "stable" before being put into Slackware. One example is the 2.6 kernel series — Slackware did not default to a 2.6 kernel, which was released in 2003, until Slackware 12 in 2007. Thomas Ronayne sums it up well:

It does matter to me that Slackware is conservative; too many times I've burned by cutting-edge technology crashing down around my ears and, frankly, I don't want to deal with that nonsense. I value stability far more than I do bells and whistles. The first editor I learned was ed (came with GECOS). I use vi simply because it is rock-solid, dependable and I never have to deal with "improvements" that get in my way. I learned AT&T's Documenter's Workbench, still have it, still use it -- I like the macros and troff!

[...] A full installation of Slackware results in a full-boat system -- the compilers are there, MySQL is there, Apache is there, all the tools are there, you get on with what you want to do (I do a lot of software development). When you install, say, Ubuntu you have to start adding (and adding and adding) stuff just to get to the point where you can compile and execute hello, world: nuts to that. Plus there's a constant barrage of updates. Plus, because the distribution has been "tuned," you really can't tell what the heck was done to which when you try to change something. Yeah, with Slackware you have to add OpenOffice.org if you want a word processor (KWord just doesn't cut the mustard) but that doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as not having a software development environment at first boot and having to figure out why I can't get Apache configured or where the heck to I get Korn Shell.

Slackware is the most un-fooled-around-with distribution and that makes it my baby.

JK Wood responded that he prefers Slackware because "Pat keeps things as close to upstream as possible. He also publishes the scripts and patches he uses in the source tree, so if I have a question how something was compiled, I simply have to go looking." Wood says that it has "just enough" pre-configuration, with "defaults that make sense in Slackware, and the rest is left to the end-user admin."

Though it's not advertised heavily, Wood points out another of Slackware's advantages — long-term support. Wood says that Slackware 8.1, released in 2002, is still receiving security updates. Few distributions can match that kind of longevity. For Vim users, "Emacs is in its own diskset. I can skip it completely in the installer, no questions asked."

Other users were lured in from Slackware derivatives like Wolvix or Slax before settling on the original.

Not everyone stays with Slackware, though. One respondent says that they tried Slackware "for all of a week and then went back to Debian" though they said they like Slackware:

So if I like Slackware why did I go back to Debian? Homesickness for one, I started with Ubuntu and after a couple of years moved to Debian for about another year. Another reason is because I needed to have an operating system that I could set up in a day and forget about. I will give Slackware another shot though, probably within the next few months at most.

In short, Slackware users are those who want to tinker with their system and don't find it intimidating — or are willing to face intimidation to learn more about their systems. The users range from hobbyists to one who claims to manage more than 150 Slackware servers across the state. Which isn't to suggest that Slackware is likely to be a big choice on behalf of business. The Slackware site lists a few companies that offer Slackware support but it doesn't seem too many organizations are clamoring for it. I contacted Steuben Technologies and Adjuvo Consulting. William Schaub of Steuben Technologies says he's received only one serious call for Slackware support and says "My guess is either there isn't a lot of people running Slackware in production or (and this is more likely) that most people running Slackware on their servers have all the help in house that they need."

The Slackware community may be smaller than those of major Linux distributions, but it's also largely free of politics and drama (Volkerding's health scare excepted). The distribution is driven by Volkerding, but it's not a one-man show. The changelog is full of acknowledgments from Volkerding to Robby Workman, Eric Hameleers, and many others.

You could look at Slackware and say that it's out of date, a throwback to the days when Linux was the domain of the "l33t" and little more than a hobbyist OS. Another way to look at it is that Slackware is for users who miss the simpler days of Linux and still want to tinker with their systems.


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to post comments

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:33 UTC (Tue) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]

I too got into Slackware in '96, and confess that I still have an install at home. There will always be a soft spot in my heart for it. I remember going through about 200 floppy disks as only the university had bandwidth (28K paid dialup at home) and it taking weeks to get the first install as several attempts of downloads were necessary. These days, my Slackware runs in a VM and has all of the appropriate things like volume management, and still looks quite nice for its vintage.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:40 UTC (Tue) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link] (3 responses)

Oh, and I would still encourage people who really want to understand every aspect of Linux to spend some time without the gloss for a while. I got into it when I was 14, and there's nothing like learning by having to figure out what fsck is the first time you need it. In those days, you had to figure stuff out because nobody was going to help you. It's like how doing a Linux from Scratch install is a good idea sometime just to know how things work together (I can't be the only person who refuses to use something I don't understand inside out).

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 7:45 UTC (Wed) by jiu (guest, #57673) [Link]

for people who want to tinker and learn, I think archlinux is even better, as it also gives you a taste of the latest and greatest (at the expense of stability).

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 11:47 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

You are most definitely not. On lkml and the toolchain lists I suspect you'd have to search very hard to find anyone without that attitude!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 21:56 UTC (Thu) by Kamilion (subscriber, #42576) [Link]

Another +1 for Linux From Scratch.
"Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but..."
I was involved with those guys ten years ago; still have one of the very first print copies of the LFS 4 book. Big thanks to Jesse Tie Ten Quee (highos) and Gerard Beekmans for all of the tough work in the early days!

Seriously. Spend three months working with Linux From Scratch, and you will have a depth of understanding that will carry you through many years of linux. I moved on to Gentoo (just -Os -pipe, thank you, no rice here.) and then onto Debian and Ubuntu, where I've stayed for quite a long time.
I dislike the redhat package management and mirror setup, and I find "add-apt-repository ppa:freenx-team" to be quite friendly and easy to deal with.

I simply don't have the time to tinker that I did in my youth, I don't have the energy to './configure; make; make install' for every package, and things like Zentyal and ROS sitting on top of Ubuntu gives a nice range of application specific derivatives without spending a lot of effort to set them up properly.

"...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." -- Dennis Miller

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:47 UTC (Tue) by rworkman (guest, #47472) [Link]

Good writeup, Zonker - thanks! :-)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:54 UTC (Tue) by JoeF (guest, #4486) [Link] (1 responses)

Great writeup.
I am using Slackware since 1994. I came to it from Softlanding (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Softlandin...), which vanished in 1994. And Slack was based on SLS.
I am currently running Slack 12.2, still not ready for KDE 4 in Slack 13.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:52 UTC (Wed) by jzbiciak (guest, #5246) [Link]

I got started similarly, starting with SLS in November '93 and then installing Slackware over it sometime in the next year. Stuck with Slackware through the rest of college.

I made the jump to RedHat around 4.2 though with the computer I bought after I graduated. Later I jumped to Ubuntu after seeing the mess that was RedHat 8 and 9. (Still have a RH 7.3 server though.)

I still remember all the hijinks I used to pull with my old Slackware box, though. All sorts of questionable customizations to the bootup scripts (a goofy "Linux 95" animation in SVGAlib that I hacked together, along with a tracker playing a MOD file with M.U.L.E's theme song), hacking my MAC address to match one of the school's computers to get on the campus network, routing our house's computers (after I moved off-campus) through a single 14.4k dialup connection with the shiny new "IP Masquerading", exporting NFS over dialup so I could run a bare-bones Linux boot from floppy on campus but execute executables compiled at home locally on campus, the 1152x864 "tweaked" SVGA mode in X (with all the apps running remotely on a Sun, 'cause I had only 4MB of RAM at the time)...

So much fun!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:57 UTC (Tue) by irb (subscriber, #72321) [Link]

I for one am enthusiastically awaiting the next slack release. When asked by users of other systems why in hell I run Slackware, I like to tell them that it's because I *like* UNIX. I don't always agree with Pat's design decisions but it's not like it's terribly difficult to do it my way once it's installed.

My only real complaint about the system is that it doesn't scale all that well. I don't miss GNOME and I can figure out the dependencies by myself, thankyouverymuch. It's certainly not for everyone. If you don't like solving problems, or you want them solved for you, stay away; for the rest of us, it is an oasis.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:20 UTC (Wed) by xtifr (guest, #143) [Link] (6 responses)

> Slackware Linux is the oldest surviving Linux distribution.

Debatable. Slackware and Debian were started in the same year, though the far-more-ambitious Debian project took much longer to reach its first feature-complete release.

As for fun, I think that's a fairly common element of the smaller community distros. DamnSmall, like Slack, has the fun right there in the name. And even Debian still insists on using Toy Story characters to name its releases. (And say what you like about Debian's "free-er-than-thou" attitudes, but is it really all that much different from Slackware's less-patched-than-thou?)

Still, Slackware is tied with Gentoo for first place in my list of "Distros I'm Glad Exist Even Though I'm Not Particularly Tempted to Use Them". I prefer Debian because I'm lazy (a cardinal virtue of programmers), but I often feel like I have more in common with Slackware or Gentoo users than with some of the more fanatical Debianites. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:25 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (3 responses)

>As for fun, I think that's a fairly common element of the smaller community distros.

For large distros as well. Come on, Natty Narwhal!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:55 UTC (Wed) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] (2 responses)

> For large distros as well. Come on, Natty Narwhal!

Not to mention Beefy Miracle.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 5:45 UTC (Wed) by jthill (subscriber, #56558) [Link] (1 responses)

They all, however, are Flesh-Eating Bats With Fangs. I think it's just so appropriate for the stock exchanges.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 6:00 UTC (Wed) by jthill (subscriber, #56558) [Link]

geh. that's just the latest, of course.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 17:51 UTC (Wed) by volkerdi (guest, #54290) [Link] (1 responses)

>> Slackware Linux is the oldest surviving Linux distribution.

>Debatable. Slackware and Debian were started in the same year, though the far-more-ambitious Debian project took much longer to reach its first feature-complete release.

It is always interesting to see how history rewrites itself. Slackware was passed around as a beta in April of 1993 and by the time the Debian Manifesto was published in August, Slackware had hit version 1.00 a month before, the Slackware repository was hosted at ftp.cdrom.com, and SLS was quickly fading away. I believe what killed SLS was failing to release often in the early days (months were forever then), and fooling with the kernel far too much. One of the last SLS releases (after Slackware 1.00) shipped with a kernel that had been modified to add the concept of kernel modules and modularized most of the major drivers. Of course, it was completely broken and unsuitable for production use, but it was a concept way ahead of its time.

Back to Debian. Ian and I spoke on the phone at length around the time of the manifesto. He had wanted me to give up Slackware and join Debian Project, and was going to give me a vote in the development (like anyone else who wanted to join). I am not going to claim that Debian is a Slackware fork, but in August of 1993 that's pretty much what Ian had on his computer. I'm not sure that I actually saw a copy of Debian proper until around 1995.

On the oldest distribution topic, didn't H.J. Lu distribute two floppy disk images (a boot disk, and a root disk) before MCC+?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 17:11 UTC (Fri) by rworkman (guest, #47472) [Link]

Grab a napkin, bud; you just got served. ;-)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:56 UTC (Wed) by joey (guest, #328) [Link] (2 responses)

Wow, some neurons still light up at the mention of "a" and "xap", and it's been 17 years since I used Slackware.

Is the default hostname still "darkstar"?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 4:46 UTC (Wed) by JoeF (guest, #4486) [Link] (1 responses)

"Is the default hostname still "darkstar"?"

Yup.
$: fgrep darkstar /etc/rc.d/*
/etc/rc.d/rc.M: echo "darkstar.example.net" > /etc/HOSTNAME
/etc/rc.d/rc.M: /bin/hostname darkstar

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 10:06 UTC (Wed) by jzbiciak (guest, #5246) [Link]

Indeed, that lit up a few neurons that hadn't fired in awhile. :-)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 1:11 UTC (Wed) by allesfresser (guest, #216) [Link] (62 responses)

I'm noticing the commenters on this article tend to have (relatively) low subscriber numbers. Interesting. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 1:23 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (61 responses)

Indeed, Linux is now old enough that there's plenty of us geezers around to reminisce about it. Hands up, everybody who manually did the a.out to ELF conversion on their early Slackware systems...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 3:41 UTC (Wed) by xanni (subscriber, #361) [Link]

Ouch, did you really need to bring that memory back? :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 3:43 UTC (Wed) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Me! Me!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 4:16 UTC (Wed) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link]

Oh, I had forgotten this step. Hah, why did I bother?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 5:01 UTC (Wed) by JoeF (guest, #4486) [Link]

I actually had all forgotten about that...
In my memory, it wasn't all that bad, but that's probably due to the passage of time.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 7:13 UTC (Wed) by Darkmere (subscriber, #53695) [Link] (5 responses)

*wave* ( Long uid here, shame on me ;)

Gotta admit, I first got started on slack back on an IBM PS/2 ...

Mature Linux Users

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:07 UTC (Wed) by Felix.Braun (guest, #3032) [Link] (3 responses)

( Long uid here, shame on me ;)

No need to be ashamed! Back when LWN started offering user registration, I was very sesitive to privacy issues too. I remember only being willing to give up my anonymity when non-subscribers had to wait for a week to be able to access the newest content.

Nowadays, I subscribe to a lot of other sites. I guess I'm getting mellow with old age... :-)

Mature Linux Users

Posted Mar 23, 2011 10:26 UTC (Wed) by fatrat (guest, #1518) [Link]

You've just been corrupted by the Zeitgeist of the age :)

Mature Linux Users

Posted Mar 24, 2011 7:48 UTC (Thu) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link] (1 responses)

The subscription model also got me to setup an account, though apparently not quite as quickly as for you.

Mature Linux Users

Posted Mar 26, 2011 6:16 UTC (Sat) by speedster1 (guest, #8143) [Link]

Subscription model forced me to get an account as well -- but I put LWN subscription on a wishlist for my birthday, which delayed things for a few months. Guess I was too cheap to buy it for myself, a grad student at the time ;)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 2:07 UTC (Sat) by roelofs (guest, #2599) [Link]

Gotta admit, I first got started on slack back on an IBM PS/2 ...

I think I installed mine on (the remains of) an IBM PC/AT. Granted, the motherboard was gone, but that case and keyboard were built like a tank. IIRC, the upgrade path was something like 286-6 -> 386-25 (first Slackware, early 1994) -> 486-33 -> 486-66 (CPU upgrade only) -> 2 x Pentium-100 -> 2 x PII-266. The power supply was still working after nearly 20 years...but its lack of ATX headers finally killed the upgrade cycle.

These days I run a mix of systems, including two that shipped with Ubuntu, but I still have Slackware on my current desktop at work and on at least one or two laptops at home. Ah, X Windows and Netscape in 16 MB of RAM...those were the days.

Greg

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 7:27 UTC (Wed) by hjb (subscriber, #25523) [Link]

I did. I didn't even use binary packages; I compiled most stuff by hand.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:08 UTC (Wed) by vmlinuz (guest, #24) [Link] (1 responses)

I think I probably just kept using the old stuff until I reinstalled, but I did use a.out Slack...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 10:32 UTC (Wed) by jzbiciak (guest, #5246) [Link]

Re: your username...

I remember when I could still boot my vmlinuz image from a 360K 5.25" floppy. It was a sad day when I made my 3.5" drive A: instead of my 5.25" floppy. (I even booted a bare 5.25" floppy once, just 'cause.)

dd if=/vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0 bs=512

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:08 UTC (Wed) by SiB (subscriber, #4048) [Link] (2 responses)

Calani Bluenote 486-DX33, 4MB RAM, later 8MB, 200MB disk, no network, Slackware, of course, early 1994.

X11, Emacs, Latex alternativly swapping in and out of RAM.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 12:02 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

And the long long waits whenever Emacs decided to do a GC. (Of course I was used to that, having started Emacsing way back in the DOS days, in 1990 or thereabouts.)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 12:36 UTC (Wed) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link]

> 8MB, Emacs, swapping
So it was YOU!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:38 UTC (Wed) by tomsi (subscriber, #2306) [Link]

Yes, this reminds me of something I had to at one time ...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:47 UTC (Wed) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link] (5 responses)

I dunno about that, but the first Linux I installed myself, was a version of Slackware whose version-number I no longer recall, but I *do* remember that it came with the 1.2.13 kernel and was delivered on a CD from Walnut Creek.

I guess that must mean it was 1995 or something of that nature ?

We're thus nearing the date when I can say: "I've run Linux since before you where born, little one."

I -do- remember a.out vs elf being a big deal - along with getting scandinavian letters to work right on the console, which at the time required arcane magic. (and even then you couldn't generally expect it to work right in all programs)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:55 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link] (2 responses)

"We're thus nearing the date when I can say: "I've run Linux since before you where born, little one.""

Well, we're there already. At least, I am. In the krita project we have a 15 year old contributor, and at conf.kde.in I was hacking together with a five year old who knew Python and C++... Not to mention that I was using Linux before my twins were born, and they are Linux users as well.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 8:59 UTC (Wed) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link]

My twins are only 4. But they do use Linux. No C++ yet ;)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 28, 2011 4:48 UTC (Mon) by The_Barbarian (guest, #48152) [Link]

>a five year old who knew Python and C++

What

I can see a five year old that can do some Python, but the thought that a five year old could do any C++ terrifies me.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 10:59 UTC (Wed) by etienne (guest, #25256) [Link]

> the 1.2.13 kernel and was delivered on a CD from Walnut Creek.

You could then download it (by dialup), it was 27 floppy disks if I remember correctly - and worked on 386sx 16Mhz.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 23:07 UTC (Wed) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]

I've been using Linux more than half my life time, since about 1996 (I believe summer of '96 though I might have heard about the SLS or other floppy installs before that, which I was on SunOS and other platforms). So in a little over 2 years from now there will start to be kids in college and turning up at conferences who were born after I started using Linux. I suspect there are readers here for which this is already true.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 10:29 UTC (Wed) by jzbiciak (guest, #5246) [Link] (1 responses)

Oh yeah, I remember that. libc4 to libc5....

And I remember "impure" executables, great when you wanted a really tiny a.out file. "gcc -N", right? That allowed your data and code segments to overlap, rather than be page aligned....

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 12:00 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Yes indeed. ZMAGIC and QMAGIC, happy days...

Of course then there was libc5 -> libc6 and we had to recompile everything *again*, and it took forever to compile glibc or X on my 8Mb RAM 486...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 12:28 UTC (Wed) by kay (subscriber, #1362) [Link]

OUCH? me ...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 16:17 UTC (Wed) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link] (8 responses)

I don't miss that sort of thing very much. The Good Old Days were really quite bad.

I was working in tech support back then, and on one occasion we spent days trying to get a Diamond video card to work with X on Slackware. Diamond finally relented and gave us the information we needed. I think the FVWM screenshot in this article must have triggered that memory. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 19:46 UTC (Wed) by SiB (subscriber, #4048) [Link] (3 responses)

> I think the FVWM screenshot in this article must have triggered that memory. :)

fvwm is still managing my windows. My current fvwm2rc.m4 was handcrafted more than 10 years ago, but still does what I need.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 20:03 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

I lost mine when I moved to S.u.S.e... I sometimes miss fvwm, but that's more or less pure nostalgia. I also miss slackware sometimes, but these days I can't afford the time spent tinkering. And OpenSUSE just works for this software developer.

FVWM

Posted Mar 24, 2011 15:46 UTC (Thu) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link]

> My current fvwm2rc.m4 was handcrafted more than 10 years ago, but still does what I need.

I've often thought the FVWM project could do themselves a favor by using a more "normal" default configuration. This wouldn't affect people like yourself who have their own fine-tuned configuration, but I think it would help new users stick with it longer, with more of them staying on as long-term users. The way it it now it's tempting to say "I can't use this" after about 10 minutes and move on to something else.

I haven't tried FVWM for about a year, so maybe this has changed.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 0:19 UTC (Fri) by jonabbey (guest, #2736) [Link]

fvwm? N00b! tvtwm for the win!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 23:09 UTC (Wed) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link] (3 responses)

Admit it, you miss APS/Magicfilter and isapnpdump more though ;)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 15:10 UTC (Fri) by rbrito (guest, #66188) [Link] (1 responses)

(Debian maintainer of magicfilter hat on)

Gee, what is the problem with magicfilter? :-)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted May 4, 2011 9:50 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

It doesn't work with CUPS, which as far as I can tell has a far less capable filtration system (certainly a much less flexible one). :/

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 20:58 UTC (Sun) by dsimic (guest, #72007) [Link]

isapnpdump -- those were the days! ;)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 16:18 UTC (Wed) by joey (guest, #328) [Link]

Did it on Slackware and then arrived at Debian just in time to work on the tail end of it there. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 23, 2011 16:43 UTC (Wed) by marduk (subscriber, #3831) [Link] (1 responses)

I remember that time (as well as libc5 to glibc).

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 28, 2011 4:58 UTC (Mon) by The_Barbarian (guest, #48152) [Link]

Now that I saw the tail end of. I am not sure, but I believe the version of Mandrake I started with was the first Mandrake with glibc

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 3:02 UTC (Thu) by skvidal (guest, #3094) [Link]

I was there on name server I maintained at my college.
Looking back on it I was fairly reckless doing that on a production server.
:)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 17:08 UTC (Thu) by cdmiller (guest, #2813) [Link]

I must be older than I thought :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 22:11 UTC (Thu) by ldarby (guest, #41318) [Link]

I've been using Slackware exclusively on my desktop for the last 8 years (since 9.0), and all you guys are making me feel like a n00b!

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 23:04 UTC (Thu) by allesfresser (guest, #216) [Link]

I don't actually remember whether I went through that or not--perhaps that's the age kicking in. :) I do remember I started with Slack (and GNU/Linux) in 1995 at kernel version 1.2.13, so if that's the version with a.out, then I did. I got started because the nonprofit I was working for couldn't afford a new server, so I resurrected a 386SX with 4M of RAM from the attic (literally) to serve in that capacity. I had a web server book that came with a CD copy of Slackware, and so I used that for the first install. It served as local smtp, uucp, pop3, afp, and dns for quite a number of years running 24/7, until I understand it finally gave up the blue smoke. (I was already on to other pursuits by then.) The organization folded shortly after the server died, so perhaps the person that succeeded me hadn't done proper backups...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 1:30 UTC (Fri) by baldridgeec (guest, #55283) [Link] (1 responses)

That was how I broke my first Linux install! (Slackware 3.0)

Then I reinstalled and did it again with a better understanding of what was going on. I'd been running Linux on my PC for all of three weeks before trying to manually upgrade libc. It was a great experience. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 1:35 UTC (Fri) by baldridgeec (guest, #55283) [Link]

Wait, I'm wrong - a.out -> ELF was libc4 to libc5. I was going from libc5 to glibc (libc6).

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 6:26 UTC (Fri) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link] (13 responses)

I think I must have skipped that, probably upgrading to a distro that was using ELF, but I remember damaging a monitor once, trying to write X modelines. I was terribly poor at the time, too, so I had to suffer with the monitor for several months, as it got darker and darker, until I could finally afford to replace it.

Good times, for a limited definition of good. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 7:08 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (5 responses)

Ha, yes. I did this too - destroyed a monitor by running it at slightly too high a refresh rate, on its maximum resolution, with a custom modeline. :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 2:27 UTC (Sat) by roelofs (guest, #2599) [Link] (4 responses)

Ha, yes. I did this too - destroyed a monitor by running it at slightly too high a refresh rate, on its maximum resolution, with a custom modeline. :)

Yeah, we've all been there. Though in my case, the monitor in question (KFC 17", I think) claimed to support 1280x1024 at 60 Hz, so I didn't feel too bad about sticking them for an in-warranty replacement. I had to wait about six weeks for the damn thing, though.

Haven't destroyed anything since then, but ironically enough, I did end up mucking with modelines and deep X voodoo not too long ago, trying (futilely) to get a stupid onboard Intel chipset to do 1920x1200. I'm still kind of annoyed by that one...

Greg

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 6:19 UTC (Sat) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link] (3 responses)

That was the big selling point of the expensive 'multisync' monitors -- you couldn't wreck them that way. :-) All monitors these days are multisync; they just ignore signals they can't correctly reproduce.

Fixed-frequency monitors were much cheaper, but they were scary to use with Linux. It was sooo easy to get a modeline wrong.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 20:40 UTC (Sat) by roelofs (guest, #2599) [Link] (2 responses)

That was the big selling point of the expensive 'multisync' monitors -- you couldn't wreck them that way. :-)

"Expensive" being the key word... This was a multisync, but either it didn't have the circuitry to detect out-of-range signals, or else its parts were borderline. (It did survive my settings for at least a couple of months, and I believe its replacement did, too, though it's possible I tweaked things.)

Hmmm...just found a 1997 XF86Config:

Section "Monitor"

    Identifier  "KFC 17-inch"
    VendorName  "Kuo Feng Corporation"
    ModelName   "CA-1726"

    Bandwidth   110.0
    HorizSync   31-70   # multisync
    VertRefresh 45-90   # multisync

    [...]

    # 67Hz 1152x864 mode (hsync = 63.1kHz, refresh = 67Hz)
    Mode "1152x864"
        DotClock        100.0
        HTimings        1152 1200 1296 1504
        VTimings        864 866 869 904
        Flags           "-HSync", "-VSync"
    EndMode

    # better 1280x1024 mode (hsync = 64kHz, refresh = 60Hz)
    Mode "1280x1024"
        DotClock        110.0
        HTimings        1280 1288 1472 1712
        VTimings        1024 1025 1028 1054
    EndMode

EndSection

I had forgotten all about interlaced modes (one of the 1024x768 settings) and the need for special, lower-res modes to accommodate graphics cards that either didn't have enough memory to support 16bpp at full res (e.g., 2MB ATI Mach32) or couldn't crank up the dot clock high enough or both.

Good ol' days, indeed...

Greg

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 23:09 UTC (Sat) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm pretty sure that must be a later-generation XConfig. The ones I was working on weren't nearly that friendly. They were more compact, using single lines where you've got stanzas. It was best to use a calculator to figure out the correct numbers, and very easy to get it wrong.

Multisyncs aren't *supposed* to be killable by any input, but obviously your experience disagrees. :-)

What I always lusted over was the early Sony multisyncs. Those were beautiful monitors.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 23:37 UTC (Sat) by roelofs (guest, #2599) [Link]

I'm pretty sure that must be a later-generation XConfig. The ones I was working on weren't nearly that friendly. They were more compact, using single lines where you've got stanzas.

Yup, my early-1994 ones were like you describe, and the one I excerpted still has equivalent commented-out lines like that:

#   ModeLine "1280x1024a" 110 1280 1320 1480 1728 1024 1029 1036 1077
#   ModeLine "1280x1024"  110 1280 1288 1472 1712 1024 1025 1028 1054

Was that an X11R5-vs-R6 change, maybe?

As you say, it was very easy to get wrong, which is why, in slightly later releases, the bundled text file(s) showing other people's working configs for card/monitor combos were so valuable.

What I always lusted over was the early Sony multisyncs. Those were beautiful monitors.

That they were. I eventually bought a used Hitachi 21" with the same (Trinitron-style) shadow mask; it's still sitting on my desk behind the LCD. :-)

Greg

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 21:36 UTC (Sat) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link] (6 responses)

I'm actually a fan. Part of me pines for the days when using a computer required the brain to be fully enabled. Blowing up a monitor with an incorrect modeline is a nice IQ test. Yea, it's nice that we're all encompassing these days, but I liked it when things kept out of my way.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 22:54 UTC (Sat) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link] (5 responses)

I'd argue that if you have to keep your brain engaged to use a computer without blowing anything up, it's most emphatically not getting out of your way. :-)

There's still plenty of brain-bending stuff in Linux these days -- a great deal more of it, in fact. Things must be a hundred times as complex, overall, as they were back then. You don't need as much knowledge to use the system at a basic level, but becoming truly expert is far more difficult than it was, simply because there's so much more to know.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 4:50 UTC (Sun) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link] (4 responses)

I'm thinking about the LWN crowd - people who work on Linuxy stuff. I'm all for using EDID provided data and doing everything automatically for end users, and even happy with lots of the prettification on that front, but if you're going to really work with Linux in terms of the features and experience provided to end users, you should be forced to at least know what a mode line is, etc. If this kind of logic were broadly applied, the results could only be a good thing.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 7:20 UTC (Sun) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link] (3 responses)

Modelines are among the most arbitrary wastes of time ever inflicted on Linux users (and I say this as an ex-graphics driver writer). You'd spend the afternoon reading docs and fiddling little numbers just trying to get the stupid video card and monitor to sync without flickering. The only lesson you'd remember is that most graphics hardware is junk... which you already knew.

You'd rather see people monkeying around with VESA tables instead of working with Linux? You advocate FORCING people to learn this antiquated stuff?? You should force them to key in the bootloader using front-panel switches instead, at least then they learn the machine architecture.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 17:38 UTC (Sun) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] (1 responses)

You should force them to key in the bootloader using front-panel switches instead
Ah, nostalgia. But was there really a version of linux that would run on a PDP-8?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 30, 2011 5:01 UTC (Wed) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link]

> Ah, nostalgia. But was there really a version of linux
> that would run on a PDP-8?

No... not *yet*.

Just kidding. I don't think Linus would take that new arch. We've got enough archs that are pining for the fjords already...

But seriously, someone did write a UNIX for commodore 64 from scratch in the 1990s. It was called LUnix:

http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lun_about.html

Apparently it was written in pure assembly language. Wow...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 18:13 UTC (Sun) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]

Certainly some velue in the front panel switch suggestion as well. Having a good understanding of computer architecture is never wasted ;)

Clearly I'm exaggerating. But I don't always like the world we live in because things are sometimes getting a bit easy. This is why I think occasionally doing something arcane or forcing yourself to skip the fluff for a few minutes can only be useful education.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 22:22 UTC (Fri) by cry_regarder (subscriber, #50545) [Link]

:-) I did a manual a.out to elf conversion. Soon after that I said "Never again!" and switched to red hat.

I started with SLS and SWiM Motif way back in the day.

It's been nice long ride!

Cry

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 29, 2011 10:46 UTC (Tue) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646) [Link]

Ouch, bad memories. Did you have to wake them? :-) :-)

But then, having Slackware was so much better than compiling everything by hand. (I used SLS before Slackware, having used original Version 7 and BSD Unix before; and was quite happy when Slack came out in 1993.)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Apr 7, 2011 17:09 UTC (Thu) by stevem (subscriber, #1512) [Link]

Oh gods, yes... :-)

Then the mess I had left caused me to switch to Debian later that year IIRC...

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 6:12 UTC (Thu) by hidave (subscriber, #18406) [Link]

I have to say:
Thanks you for the artical from a slackware user using since the "Slackware 7.0"

If you want just the command prompt...

Posted Mar 24, 2011 14:19 UTC (Thu) by butcher (guest, #856) [Link] (2 responses)

...take a look at ttylinux: http://ttylinux.net. 24MB bootable ISO that has an install script; if you really want to start from scratch, there's a build system that comes with the constituent source tarballs and cross-compiler setup scripts.

My first distro was Slackware in '94, IIRC. Built a mail server. Learned a lot, among the lessons was appreciating 'it just works' updating for boxes that aren't just for playing around, which was a mixed experience in slack at the time. As an eventual outcome, I now use Ubuntu for my HTPC, file/print server, and desktop machines, with the only complaint being the setup for development as noted previously.

But, for cluster computing, where I just want the thing to boot with a set of libraries that support my own apps, I'm really enamoured with ttylinux...

If you want just the command prompt...

Posted Mar 24, 2011 14:27 UTC (Thu) by apolinsky (subscriber, #19556) [Link] (1 responses)

All I can say is that I started with Slackware at version 2.2. Currently I have 12.1, 12.2 and 13.1 on home computers along with Debian Squeeze. When I upgraded to Squeeze from Lenny, VMWare stopped working. When I upgrade Slackware, everything continues to function. Centos has similar upward reliability.

If you want just the command prompt...

Posted Mar 24, 2011 17:12 UTC (Thu) by wazoox (subscriber, #69624) [Link]

I started with Slack 3.1 IIRC, now running 13.0 on my work computer and 13.1 at home. My previous home machine was live-upgraded from 9.1 up to 12.1; then I tried skipping a couple of releases and went directly to 13.1, but some things never worked properly (firefox > 3.0, particularly, never ran).

Then I changed the machine, and installed a fresh 13.1 :)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 24, 2011 23:32 UTC (Thu) by fsateler (subscriber, #65497) [Link] (2 responses)

I once attended a class where they told us a story about a certain ballet-shoemaker who had invented a shoe that had the property of not destroying and deforming your feet when doing the tip-toe thing. When introducing the shoe, he thought he would make a lot of money out of this. Alas, all the serious ballet dancers refused to use the new shoe, saying that to get the true beauty of ballet the dancer had to endure the pain of the shoes, or something like that. So the shoemaker had to go to ballet schools so teenage ballet dancers, who had not yet gotten used to hurting feet, adopted them.

I can't help but feel a similarity here.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 2:25 UTC (Fri) by dmag (guest, #17775) [Link] (1 responses)

The biggest benefit of Slackware is that you can upgrade things at will. There are no surprises if you have to go upstream and do the "download/configure/make" dance.

In Ubuntu/RedHat, everything works if you stick to the package system. But if they are too slow (or you need different compile-time options) it's not always easy to "do it yourself". Grabbing a fresh copy from upstream will often break in subtle ways because of changes made by the distributor. (In fact, that's what makes moving between these distros a pain.) They do everything from moving around config files to adding custom patches to changing the name of services! (ssh vs sshd, apache vs httpd).

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 25, 2011 20:19 UTC (Fri) by vonbrand (guest, #4458) [Link]

I'm sorry, but when I used Slackware (way back) and installed stuff from sources, I had to reinstall with some regularity because of self-inflicted breakage. Same when I moved to Red Hat, until I learned to get the SRPM (source), create my own with any updated/hacked upstream, check the patches/modifications from Red Had still work, build and install my own package. It integrates with the system cleanly, if/when Red Hat does come out with an updated package it will cleanly replace mine if I'm a bit careful, any dependencies are handled for me. Any real package management system must at least allow yo to do the same. Remembering what hacked stuff is on the system is feasible as long as it is a dozen (at most) packages, over that is sheer madness.

Been there, done it.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 26, 2011 0:10 UTC (Sat) by tonyblackwell (subscriber, #43641) [Link] (5 responses)

Low number LWN members well represented in these cozy reminisces. Fun reading. Thankyou.

Off topic, talking of Slackware old hardware support reminds me when SCO was not a dirty word and I ran a whole haematology lab with 10 serial terminals on a 286 and Stallion serial expansion card, SCO Xenix serial no 240, 100Mb hard disk. Around 1986 I think?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 27, 2011 21:18 UTC (Sun) by dsimic (guest, #72007) [Link] (4 responses)

Got involved with Linux back in 1997 or so, with Slackware 3.6 -- and happily used Slackware exclusively until 2007 or so. Back at that time hardware evolved to 64-bit CPUs and Slackware lacked official support, so unfortunately got myself migrated to CentOS while doing hardware upgrades -- and I really miss the simplicity of Slackware. There -- man is a man, and startup script is a startup script. No lemons.

I'm looking at Ubuntu from time to time, just to see what's happening in softy-and-user-friendly-land -- well, what a thing they turned Linux into... I don't see the purpose of making Linux to be second Windows -- if you want that, go and shell out $200 or whatever Windows 7 costs, and enjoy it, you'll get the *real* user-friendly thing.

What's the purpose of having install-it-in-10-minutes-and-understand-nothing Ubuntu, with brain-dead audience using it just to browse pictures or login into Facebook and leave more meaningless stuff around? I'm not saying that we all should still be using DIP switches to configure expansion card IRQ usage, but what's the point in making Linux second Windows?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 28, 2011 7:51 UTC (Mon) by mbar (guest, #73813) [Link] (1 responses)

"What's the purpose of having install-it-in-10-minutes-and-understand-nothing Ubuntu, with brain-dead audience using it just to browse pictures or login into Facebook and leave more meaningless stuff around?"

And what's wrong with that and on top of that still having $200 or whatever in the wallet?

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 28, 2011 13:02 UTC (Mon) by aclucas (subscriber, #1615) [Link]

Agree there, got to be better that, than paying a company who'd continue to subvert the world to paying them for every new computer they buy.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 31, 2011 18:17 UTC (Thu) by sumanah (guest, #59891) [Link] (1 responses)

Easy-to-install and easy-to-use free operating systems give people tools to make their lives easier. It is legitimate to contribute things to the world other than code and to focus one's energy on understanding things other than code.

(And, anecdotally, nontechnical users I know find Ubuntu easier to use than Windows. So it's not just cheaper, it's better.)

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Apr 3, 2011 1:13 UTC (Sun) by dsimic (guest, #72007) [Link]

Well, that makes sense from another standpoint. ;) You're right that it's perfectly Ok to do other things than coding and such, but with Ubuntu you get people amazed by colorful things and distracted from the hard way of learning what's actually happening under the bonnet. And you get another "mutation" of M$ Windows in the town.

Similar status applies to M$ Windows itself -- there are very few people knowing what's happening under the bonnet, as it's much more fun to poke images and watch videos, than to dvelve into MFC / DCOM or whatever, or to type in a console or vi. I'd say similar will happen with newcomers into Linux which opt for Ubuntu or similar "brain-dead" distros, as nobody will start picking to do more complicated things.

As with Slackware in old days, you *had* to know what's under the bonnet just to bring up a PPP connection. So if anybody wanted to do anything, he had to learn a lot. Nowadays all the colorful stuff is simply de-motivating learning -- I can bet that less than 1% of Ubuntu users know what the heck is iptables, for example.

But again, I might be wrong. Probably I just need to watch more YouTube videos. ;)

long-term support...sort of

Posted Mar 26, 2011 2:18 UTC (Sat) by roelofs (guest, #2599) [Link] (1 responses)

Though it's not advertised heavily, Wood points out another of Slackware's advantages — long-term support. Wood says that Slackware 8.1, released in 2002, is still receiving security updates.

That's true as far as it goes, but as with Barry Bonds, there's a big asterisk lurking there. Browser support (Firefox and SeaMonkey), for example, doesn't go back before Slackware 12.2 or 13.0, I believe; yet clearly that's one app category in which ongoing security updates would be very nice. (Not that I blame Pat for cutting things off, of course--browsers have a huge dependency list and tend to be a pain to recompile. Doing so on an "outdated" software stack becomes untenable pretty quickly.) Some other packages get updates only back to 11.0 or 10.2. I think only the simplest (least-dependent) ones go back as far as 8.x, and then only if they're considered to be in the "very high" security-risk category.

Greg

long-term support...sort of

Posted Mar 31, 2011 12:54 UTC (Thu) by dvandeun (guest, #24273) [Link]

The old versions are still usable on servers. Desktop systems should indeed be upgraded more often.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Mar 31, 2011 11:14 UTC (Thu) by saxa (guest, #30413) [Link]

Gnome on Slackware has also another option, dropline GNOME, which of course
is not always ready for the last Slackware release, but we are trying our best.

Just for info: http://www.droplinegnome.org

We have nearly ready gnome 2.32 for Slackware 13.1 and soon we plan to
release it for Slackware 13.37 .

Also a great article, stating exactly what Slackware is. I'm a Slackware user from 3.3 version, or maybe earlier... Anyway simplicity and full set of packages is what make it my preference over other distros.

"Have a lot of fun!", indeed

Posted Mar 31, 2011 22:14 UTC (Thu) by gus3 (guest, #61103) [Link]

I was first exposed to Unix in 1993, in college. It was arcane, complicated, even case-sensitive on the CLI! But, by golly, I could take this C program I had written for DOS, compile it, and it would run.

The system was an Alpha that got scrapped for parts during the summer. We had a shiny new AIX system when I returned the following autumn. I learned how to use "man" and that was all I needed.

I got my degree, and signed up for the free Unix Review monthly, for some exposure to non-M$ stuff. In it, I read about this interesting thing called Linux, that acted like Unix, ran on any PC that could run Windows, and came on a CD (this was in 1997). Well, I decided to give it a spin.

I went to a local bookstore, found their section with computer books, and picked up the cheapest Linux book with an install CD in it: the Linux Bible, which was largely a collection of HOWTO's of varying accuracy, plus a detailed first section on installing Slackware Linux from the CD. For the first, last, and probably only time in my life, I read the instructions very carefully, even taking two pages of hand-written notes in preparation for the work ahead.

Three installation attempts later, I finally got a working Linux boot. Success! I got a login prompt, logged in as root, typed "man vi", and rejoiced. I was actually running a pure 32-bit, multi-user, multi-tasking OS on my home computer. Granted, Linux is the adopted bastard step-cousin of the Unix family, but its multi-user multi-tasking capabilities were designed in pretty much from the beginning, not tacked on as progressive overlays as as Microsoft had done going from DOS to Windows 95. (I'm ignoring Windows NT; I couldn't afford a system that heavy.)

I did so much wrong back then: running as root, never updating, yadda yadda yadda. I learned about such things in the School of Hard Knocks, but that was my own obstinacy. When my Linux installation got messed up, I knew it was probably my own fault.

By contrast, what happened to my Windows installation was not my own fault: I lost everything to the Chernobyl virus on April 1, 1998, thirteen years ago tomorrow as I write this. It wiped out my partition table, which blew away both Windows and Linux. Since I didn't have the tools to recover Windows, and Linux partition recovery tools were hard to come by, I decided to start over with 100% Slackware Linux. Thirteen years later, I'm so happy I did.

I haven't stayed with Slackware the entire time. I've wandered into Mandrake, Red Hat, and Gentoo territory, but I've come back to Slackware every time. When I got my 64-bit desktop system, before Patrick had official x86_64 support, I had Slamd64 and Bluewhite64. As soon as Slackware64-current went public, I downloaded the entire set of packages and installed them.

Rest assured, if I ever get an ARM-based system, it will (must) support ARMedslack.

Thank you, Pat, for all the fun you put into Slackware, and all the doors you've opened up for me. The learning curve was steep, but without it, I wouldn't have been able to get that job in Silicon Valley, and I wouldn't have met you at Linux World Expo 2000 in San Jose.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Apr 8, 2011 13:13 UTC (Fri) by kirkengaard (guest, #15022) [Link]

So many good memories! I've since gone to a laptop system that (for all its Intel Linux compatibility) broke my chain of Slack use. Stupid wide screen -- I got tired of fixing everything that didn't believe in 16x9.

While we're "old-folks-at-home" here, I got into Linux with a SuSE retail box just before the libc6 transition. Spent too many times screwing it up by recompiling/upgrading libc and X and everything after, and then discovered Slackware. That was right at the version 7 bump, and I never looked back! Debian was still on text-based install, and nothing like as slick and clean as the Slackware install environment. I had some friends go Mandrake for its auto-configure, but I hated supporting their systems because the init scripts were botched by the process. Just not designed to be treated like UNIX. I ran -current constantly, and with only two major problems across the span of time from 7.0 to 13.0. It's just a beautiful system, especially now that it has package management and third-party repositories, and all without corrupting the basic philosophy.

Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it

Posted Apr 23, 2011 22:49 UTC (Sat) by bdw (guest, #16047) [Link]

A very nice trip down memory lane!

When I first heard of Linux back in 1993, the SLS distribution was my first foray into it. It was a broken distro so it was a rather bittersweet introduction.

I then tried Slackware when it first became available and wow, I had my very own UNIX(tm)-like box! I used it for a while then went back to Windoze 3.11 because, well, the applications. I then went to Red Hat 4.2 and kept upgrading it till about Fedora 11 (I recall all the controversy when Red Hat went to libc6 :) when I decided to switch over to Ubuntu. I've been using Linux as my full time OS since 1998 when I got fed up with Windoze and the BSOD.

After reading this article I downloaded the ISO images and installed Slackware 13.1 via VirtualBox. And yes, the Linux landscape has changed radically. I've been spoiled by all the polish that's be put into Fedora and Ubuntu; I'd forgotten what it was like to have to hand edit inittab and XF86Config/xorg.conf. Rather embarassing!

I'm still going to keep Slackware on the VirtualBox. My geek skills have atrophied a bit. :)


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